Re: Meta vs Fool2: arguemnt 2 Co-determinate
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:40 pm
the reason you are losing is this:
(1) your only counter cause argument is that seems to be naturalistic because (the experinces) through naturalistic means.
(2) that doesn't prove that it originates in nature apart from God
(3) just the immediate experince is not the turning point of the argument.
(4) the argument turns upon the long term effects. which you do not speak to, and you can't prove that existing the brain to fain the experince has the long term effects.
(5) the argument doesn't say it is a proof, it says it's a rational warrant for belief.
In other words we can construe it as an effect of the divine. Here's why
a) the content
b) it draw people to God
c) long term positive effects.
nothing else produces that. That's where the argument turns and you haven't touched it.
(6) just showing that experinces come through natural means proves nothing becasue any sort of understanding, communication or perceptions would have to do that.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/radiology/csm/cf.html
(1) your only counter cause argument is that seems to be naturalistic because (the experinces) through naturalistic means.
(2) that doesn't prove that it originates in nature apart from God
(3) just the immediate experince is not the turning point of the argument.
(4) the argument turns upon the long term effects. which you do not speak to, and you can't prove that existing the brain to fain the experince has the long term effects.
(5) the argument doesn't say it is a proof, it says it's a rational warrant for belief.
In other words we can construe it as an effect of the divine. Here's why
a) the content
b) it draw people to God
c) long term positive effects.
nothing else produces that. That's where the argument turns and you haven't touched it.
(6) just showing that experinces come through natural means proves nothing becasue any sort of understanding, communication or perceptions would have to do that.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/radiology/csm/cf.html
http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/Artic ... fault.aspxAndrew B. Newberg, M.D., is Principle Investigator and will serve as Chairman of the Interdisciplinary Committee. He is currently an Associate Professor in the Departments of Radiology and Psychiatry at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. He received his M.D. from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in 1993 and is Board Certified in Internal Medicine and Nuclear Medicine. Dr. Newberg has been particularly involved in the study of mystical and religious experiences as well as the more general mind/body relationship in both the clinical and research aspects of his career. He has also co-authored three books entitled, Why We Believe What We Believe: Uncovering Our Biological Need for Meaning Spirituality and Truth, Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief and The Mystical Mind: Probing the Biology of Belief that explore the relationship between neuroscience and spiritual experience. The last book received the 2000 award for Outstanding Books in Theology and the Natural Sciences presented by the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences. He currently teaches a course on Science and the Sacred in the Department of Religious Studies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_B._NewbergThis book is also based on neurophysiological research that has investigated how the brain works in a variety of circumstances. These studies have helped to advance our understanding of how different parts of the brain work, and more importantly, how they work together. Research over the past two decades has also begun to explore the relationship between brain function and body physiology. Thus, not only can we describe what is happening in the brain, we can measure the changes to the rest of the body associated with various brain states. With this information, we can begin to explore in detail, how religious and mystical experiences impact our minds and bodies.
Andrew Newberg, M.D. is an Associate Professor of Radiology and Psychiatry in the School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. He has been a prominent researcher in the field of nuclear medicine brain imaging. In particular, his research has focused on the development of neurotransmitter tracers for the evaluation of neurological and psychiatric disorders including clinical depression, head injury, Alzheimer's disease, and Parkinson's disease.