Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Discuss either theological doctrines, ideas about God, or Biblical criticism. I don't want any debates about creation vs evolution.

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sgttomas
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Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Post by sgttomas » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:25 pm

Inspired bythis post:
met wrote:Geez, ST, looking over your links, i realize I have so-o-o much to learn before i could even carry on a halfways intelligent convo with you. ..at least on these topics. My knowledge of Islam is, quite frankly, very sparse. . .consists one or two very introductory books. . . and we've already wandered off on this thread into fairly deep waters, no?.
Indeed. I am having to do a fair bit of homework myself. ...beneficial for me, and hopefully for others too.
.. . Anyway, why couldn't you just go ahead and convert to Sikhism, Hinduism, or something else that at least i know something about??? :o ;)

(Joking! ...)
lol

Reminds me of what my Hindu friend told me when he heard, "if I had known you were on the market for a religion I would have tried to sell on Hinduism!" heheheh
In any case, before we continue with this, please excuse me and my ignorance in advance, just in case i blurt out something utterly moronic. .. .
And please forgive me if I have to redact something I say because I later learn better. :oops: :oops: :oops:
Great singing on that video. Very passionate. Pretty scary lyrics, though. . . at points. . .some parts of that passage. . .
Alright, here's lesson #1.

Recitation is NOT singing. heh. It is actually more of a form of elocution, because it follows prescribed rules on how to properly correlate intonation and grammar to evoke the fullest meaning from the words. In arabic this is called tajweed. I am just embarking upon learning this discipline with the intention of being able to publicly recite the Quran in "formally religious" circumstances (anyone can dictate the Quran with a few simple prerequisites). "Singing" the Quran is actually discouraged because the rise and fall, the length of duration of sounds, and the transition between words can often CARRY MEANING in the language - so the meaning could inadvertently be changed by someone without a mastery of Arabic simply by singing!

One aspect of proper tajweed evokes polyphonic voice and gives the recitation one of its captivating qualities. The persistence and prevalence of polyphony, and the consistency throughout the Quran, is one of its inimitable qualities.

The scariness of the words is intentional, as is the peaceful calming of the descriptions of paradise. This causes self-reflection upon the characteristics of righteousness and the Benevolence and Mercy of God. It is one of the reasons you see such an emotional response in people. In fact, and I have experienced this myself (without prior thought, or awareness of what was about to happen), people can experience these states without even understanding the text - just hearing the words recited properly evokes an emotional response in the listener. This is one of the characteristics of the Arabic language, in that its linguistic form and grammatical structure allows for a high degree of expressiveness while retaining a concise and precise form, rather than being artificially defined like the English language (due to the multiple root structures from various languages inherent to English). The proper words in Arabic can not only convey a literal meaning but also an emotional quality (and it known now that certain sounds and shapes have particular emotional attachments to them, from study of perception and response). There are many stories (and you can choose to believe them or not) about bedouin Arabs (who were renowned for their mastery of Arabic) encountering the Prophet reciting would be emotionally overcome (even to the point of losing consciousness) by the impactfulness of the language.

Peace,
-sgttomas
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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met
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Re: Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Post by met » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:33 pm

yes, elocution of powerful language can be extremely impactful . . . (but then again so can music ;) )

. . . what i don't understand is what u mean about proper tajweed evoking polyphonic voice and the prevalence of polyphony in the Quran?
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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sgttomas
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Re: Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Post by sgttomas » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:43 pm

met wrote:yes, elocution of powerful language can be extremely impactful . . . (but then again so can music ;) )
"but"???
. . . what i don't understand is what u mean about proper tajweed evoking polyphonic voice and the prevalence of polyphony in the Quran?
Hm....I had someone describing to me a particular characteristic of the recitation and he said it was "polyphony", but then again, english isn't his first language. I thought I knew, but the more I looked into it this doesn't seem to be the proper term (or at least it is an odd use of the term). I'll have to go back and ask him what he meant! This might provide some insight???

Full document: http://deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr ... nload=true ...I think. It's acting up a little. But if you search for "Prof.Dr.Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd" on the main page link in my next post, it's the first article.

Peace,
-sgttomas
Last edited by sgttomas on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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sgttomas
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Re: Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Post by sgttomas » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:47 pm

Prophet Muhammad (God send peace and blessings upon him) is reported to have said, "God says 'I am as My servant thinks I am' " ~ Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol 9 #502 (Chapter 93, "Oneness of God")

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met
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Re: Islam 101 - ask sgttomas about Islam

Post by met » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:54 pm

sgttomas wrote:Wow, that website is LOADED! http://deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr ... fault.aspx

-sgtt
yeh, every question anyone asks you, u can just link them to that . . . ;) . . . and me, i will read a bunch of it, slowly


Seems like your friend meant something more like "means different (or at least additional) things at different levels??" . .. maybe that's more like harmony... polyphony, as in the Western pre-classical period music kind anyways. evokes something more like " the meaningful interplay between contrasting (and usually somehow opposing) ideas. Some have described the NY as being 'polyphonic' . . . as a way of understanding the seeming-contradictions. like eg between James and Paul. ..

"but"???
"but" . . ."but what" . .. i dunno but what . . how ;bout this . . . "but sometimes all that **** can get u killed too... like some of the West African musicians they just killed because their music said too much.
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
Dr Ward Blanton

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