Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

[rodgertutt]

I see. yes I am the broad owner. I didn't mean to be rude. I don't mean to offend you but I find a lot your things to be kind of obscurantist. that may just be because I'm not familiar with your work. Can you give me a general overview to your beliefs?

No offense taken Metacrock.
I was hoping, if you will allow it, that my snippets will give the "general overview" of why I am posting my snippets.
Because of their childhood training, many people suffer intense emotional distress over the idea that God will let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering.

My snippets, if you will allow them, will probably gradually help these folk walk away from that horrific concept of God that they were taught as children.

#27 - CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN

It is true that aionios may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God.

‘This is life eternal’ should be ‘the life of the ages,’ i.e. peculiar to those ages in which the scheme of salvation is being worked out. The ‘eternal covenant’ is the ‘covenant of the ages,’ the covenant peculiar to the ages of redemption. The ‘eternal purpose’ is really the purpose of ‘the ages,’ i.e. developed and worked out in ‘the ages.’

We who teach the larger hope believe that not in this brief life only, but through future ages, Christ’s work shall go on till the last straying sheep shall have been found by the Good Shepherd. Then, at the expiry of these ages ‘cometh the end’ when Christ shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, and God shall be All in all (1Cor. 15:28).

[rodgertutt]

#28 - THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
From the time of the apostles to the era of the reformation 1498.

“I have been careful to state, in his own words, the opinion of every Christian author extant concerning future punishment and the eventual salvation of the world. This history contains an account of every individual of note whom we have now the means of knowing to have been a universalist.”

#29 - THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
Contains the writings of several hundreds of Christian Universalists from 1498 to 1830.

A snippet from Thomas Whittemore reads, “I cannot permit this opportunity to pass without expressing my heart felt acknowledgements to that Being Who has preserved my health and enabled me to finish this work in the midst of other pressing and incessant duties. May my confidence in Him never be diminished.”

[Metacrock]

#28 - THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
From the time of the apostles to the era of the reformation 1498.

“I have been careful to state, in his own words, the opinion of every Christian author extant concerning future punishment and the eventual salvation of the world. This history contains an account of every individual of note whom we have now the means of knowing to have been a universalist.”

#29 - THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
Contains the writings of several hundreds of Christian Universalists from 1498 to 1830.

A snippet from Thomas Whittemore reads, “I cannot permit this opportunity to pass without expressing my heart felt acknowledgements to that Being Who has preserved my health and enabled me to finish this work in the midst of other pressing and incessant duties. May my confidence in Him never be diminished.”

are you a universalist?

[rodgertutt]

#28 - THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU
From the time of the apostles to the era of the reformation 1498.

“I have been careful to state, in his own words, the opinion of every Christian author extant concerning future punishment and the eventual salvation of the world. This history contains an account of every individual of note whom we have now the means of knowing to have been a universalist.”

#29 - THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE
Contains the writings of several hundreds of Christian Universalists from 1498 to 1830.

A snippet from Thomas Whittemore reads, “I cannot permit this opportunity to pass without expressing my heart felt acknowledgements to that Being Who has preserved my health and enabled me to finish this work in the midst of other pressing and incessant duties. May my confidence in Him never be diminished.”

are you a universalist?

Yes I am Metacrock, and if you will bear with me and allow me to post, the contents of my snippets will gradually address many of the arguments used to try to prove that the Bible does not teach universalism.

#30 - RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES

“It is argued that whatever be the meaning of the word aionios in the case of the lost, the same must be its meaning in the case of the saved; and our certainty of never-ending bliss for penitent believers is gone if the word bears not the same signification in the case of the impenitent and unbelieving. But the truth is that this word describes not the quantity or duration, but the quality of that which it is predicated.

The word which in Matt. 25:46 we translate punishment, in its primary sense means ‘pruning’ and is always used for corrective discipline which is for the improvement of him who suffers it. Even those who hold the common view of the endlessness of punishment are obliged to confess this; and this of itself proves that their doctrine is untenable; for any punishment, be it for a longer or shorter time would not be corrective discipline, but quite another thing if it left those who were so corrected unimproved and lost forever. But from the fall till now the changeless way of the Lord is to make even the curse a blessing.”

[rodgertutt]

#31 - YOU SAID IT LORD – ALINE TALSMA

“Lord, did you really say in Your word what I used to believe You said? Is it actually ok with You that people will spend eternity in hell? No, no, a thousand times no! You do not say that - and I am so relieved. Because had You said that, it would follow that I would have to think of You as worse than a murderer, that is, as a tormentor. If a person is murdered at least the possibility of torture and torment is past. But if I were to believe that You have prepared an eternal hell for some, I would also have to believe that You can be happy while you are tormenting people eternally.”

[Metacrock]

this is off putting to discussion. you are just hawking your wares. If you are going to come on here and parade a view that is opposed to my theology then you have to discuss it. I don't mean after you post some huge amount of material.

speaking of that who said the Bible does teach universalism?

[rodgertutt]

this is off putting to discussion. you are just hawking your wares. If you are going to come on here and parade a view that is opposed to my theology then you have to discuss it. I don't mean after you post some huge amount of material.

speaking of that who said the Bible does teach universalism?

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

I hear you Metacrock. I will stop posting on your site now.
Thank you for letting me post as much as you did.

As a parting message I would like to tell you about both the negative and positive sides of my testimony in case it might be a help to other members, or surfers, or lurkers, of this forum who have, or are experiencing what I went through for similar reasons.

I'm 73 years old, and had I known that evidence existed that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible does not teach that anyone will suffer forever I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love an endless-hell god.

THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.

If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.

I think that probably most of the agnosticism in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers (eternal tomentors) claim to love and worship.

Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.

This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.

When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”

So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.

Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.

At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.

My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until on one occasion, a welt on my legs bled. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.

Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behaviour. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.

So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.

Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 73 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThr ... ained.html

THE POSITIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

Now I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING
Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.
His many writings can be Googled up and read online.
Just type in Ray Prinzing.

During my twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

I have listened to 178 of them once, and 23 of them several times.
In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

For several years my 99 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 73 years old now)

My panic attacks completely stopped.

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google
WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at
Savior of the World Series
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

His writing specifically on universal transformation is at
The Restitution of All Things
http://www.godfire.net/eby/restitution.html
SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE

Like I said before, if I truly believed the Bible teaches eternal hell, I probably would choose to live out my life as an agnostic, hoping to find out after I die that God is not really like that. I would live my life trying to treat other people the way I would like to be treated by them and hope for the best after I die.

I think the doctrine of endless hell is probably the primary reason why many decent people choose agnosticism or atheism rather than Christianity. Like President Abraham Lincoln said to the eternal-hell evangelist, "Your god is my devil."

A TRIBUTE TO SEVERAL OF MY SPECIAL FRIENDS

Fortunately for me I learned there are people like Ray Prinzing (my hero and mentor), and Ray's friend J. Preston Eby, and another friend of both of them, Canadian, George Hawtin, who see an infinitely different God in the Bible. The writings of all three of these men can be Googled up on the internet.

IMO people like Ray and Preston and George know the real Jesus.
KNOWING THE REAL JESUS
http://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

Here's another testimony (by Charles Slagle) that was a huge help to me because the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown were the same as mine.
Copy and paste the links into your browser.

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
http://www.richardwaynegarganta.com/4Vi ... vation.htm
or
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

The second link is his own personal website.
I am very happy to report that mostly due to the influence of the audio tapes and writings of Ray Prinzing, both of my parents changed their thinking later in life.

The theme of universal salvation is prominent in all of Ray’s writings, but his book
REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL is especially good
It can be read online here

http://www.sigler.org/sirius8/rpredemption.htm
or here
http://hellbusters.8m.com/contall.htm

If necessary, copy and paste the link into your browser address bar.

By Rodger Tutt, in Toronto, Canada

[Metacrock]

I don't believe in hell as eternal conscious torment either. I find your story interesting.