Orthodox Bishop Hilarion and Universal Reconciliation

[mdsimpson92]

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles7 ... vation.php

http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/6_6_10

A few things I found while looking up the concept of universal salvation. Will comment later, but curious about opinions.

[mdsimpson92]

This is from the first article:

"According to the teaching of the Orthodox Church, all the dead, whether believers or non-believers, appear before God. Therefore, even for those who did not believe during their lifetime, there is hope that they will recognize God as their Saviour and Redeemer if their previous life on earth led them to this recognition.

The above hymn of John Damascene clearly states that the virtuous heathens were not 'taught' the true faith. This is a clear allusion to the words of Christ: 'Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost'[74]; and 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but that believeth not shall be damned'[75]. The damnation is extended only to those who were taught Christian faith but did not believe. But if a person was not taught, if he in his real life did not encounter the preaching of the gospel and did not have an opportunity to respond to it, can he be damned for it? We come back to the question that had disturbed such ancient authors as Clement of Alexandria.

Is it possible at all that the fate of a person can be changed after his death? Is death that border beyond which some unchangeable static existence comes? Does the development of the human person not stop after death?

On the one hand, it is impossible for one to actively repent in hell; it is impossible to rectify the evil deeds one committed by appropriate good works. However, it may be possible for one to repent through a 'change of heart', a review of one's values. One of the testimonies to this is the rich man of the Gospel we have already mentioned. He realized the gravity of his situation as soon as found himself in hell. Indeed, if in his lifetime he was focused on earthly pursuits and forgot God, once in hell he realized that his only hope for salvation was God[76] . Besides, according to the teaching of the Orthodox Church, the fate of a person after death can be changed through the prayer of the Church. Thus, existence after death has its own dynamics. On the basis of what has been said above, we may say that after death the development of the human person does not cease, for existence after death is not a transfer from a dynamic into a static being, but rather continuation on a new level of that road which a person followed in his lifetime."

[Metacrock]

To me it's a difficult question about the classic doctrines of the faith. I think of them sort of as "golden oldies" like a religious hit parade or 10 40 list. I believe in keeping the continuity of the faith and not discarding the core doctrines, but translating them into the modern scene.

The Orthodox church is fascinating well wroth studying, I admire them in many ways, but they have their fundies and legalistic side too.

[mdsimpson92]

To me it's a difficult question about the classic doctrines of the faith. I think of them sort of as "golden oldies" like a religious hit parade or 10 40 list. I believe in keeping the continuity of the faith and not discarding the core doctrines, but translating them into the modern scene.

The Orthodox church is fascinating well wroth studying, I admire them in many ways, but they have their fundies and legalistic side too.

True enough, I remember this same bishop actually criticising the more liberal western churches for being too wishy washy that they bring nothing to the table. (not my opinion, for most of them, except for some of the Unitarian Universalist churches but I think that might be the point)

[Metacrock]

To me it's a difficult question about the classic doctrines of the faith. I think of them sort of as "golden oldies" like a religious hit parade or 10 40 list. I believe in keeping the continuity of the faith and not discarding the core doctrines, but translating them into the modern scene.

The Orthodox church is fascinating well wroth studying, I admire them in many ways, but they have their fundies and legalistic side too.

True enough, I remember this same bishop actually criticising the more liberal western churches for being too wishy washy that they bring nothing to the table. (not my opinion, for most of them, except for some of the Unitarian Universal churches but I think that might be the point)

The former Primate of their chruch, I forget what city he represents, their equivalent of the Pope (they don't have a Pope but they have a "big cheese") came to Perkins. They seemed to be having the same kind of squabble between liberals and conservatives that we have.

[mdsimpson92]

I believe the title is Patriarch of Constantinople, there are multiple patriarchs, kind of a first among equals thing.

[Metacrock]

I believe the title is Patriarch of Constantinople, there are multiple patriarchs, kind of a first among equals thing.

Yes, I believe you are right.

[mdsimpson92]

The former Primate of their chruch, I forget what city he represents, their equivalent of the Pope (they don't have a Pope but they have a "big cheese") came to Perkins. They seemed to be having the same kind of squabble between liberals and conservatives that we have.

Not suprising, it comes with any organization that is large or has a long history. I am just glad to see that hell has less emphasis in the Orthodox Church. By the way, I know you don't believe in a literal hell, but what are your beliefs specifically?

[mdsimpson92]

Yes that was pretty good. However, I think that kind of stuff would belong in the relax section of the forum.

[mdsimpson92]

Again, does not belong here, put it in the relax section.