Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnation?

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The Pixie
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Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnation?

Post by The Pixie » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:13 am

Here is what Josephus said:
14. But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.
- Jewish War 2.8.14

Is Josephus saying they believed in reincarnation? Was he right (it is thought likely that he was a Pharisee himself)?

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Jim B. » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:37 pm

The Pixie wrote:Here is what Josephus said:
14. But then as to the two other orders at first mentioned, the Pharisees are those who are esteemed most skillful in the exact explication of their laws, and introduce the first sect. These ascribe all to fate [or providence], and to God, and yet allow, that to act what is right, or the contrary, is principally in the power of men, although fate does co-operate in every action. They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.
- Jewish War 2.8.14

Is Josephus saying they believed in reincarnation? Was he right (it is thought likely that he was a Pharisee himself)?
Shouldn't this be on the theology/Bible board?

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by The Pixie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:25 am

Jim B. wrote:Shouldn't this be on the theology/Bible board?
If someone wants to move, that is fine with me.

No one got an opinion?

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by met » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 am

They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies
Why wouldn't that be just similar to the Xian resurrection of the body as Paul (former Pharisee himself) describes it?
The “One” is the space of the “world” of the tick, but also the “pinch” of the lobster, or that rendezvous in person to confirm online pictures (with a new lover or an old God). This is the machinery operative...as “onto-theology."
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Jim B.
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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Jim B. » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:48 pm

met wrote:
They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies
Why wouldn't that be just similar to the Xian resurrection of the body as Paul (former Pharisee himself) describes it?
That's what I was thinking.

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by The Pixie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:26 pm

Jim B. wrote:
met wrote:
They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies
Why wouldn't that be just similar to the Xian resurrection of the body as Paul (former Pharisee himself) describes it?
That's what I was thinking.
Me too. Joe, however, is adamant it is about reincarnation, and I do not get it. I am not aware of anything about reincarnation in the Bible, so where would Josephus or the Pharisees get it from?

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Jim B. » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:01 pm

The Pixie wrote:
Me too. Joe, however, is adamant it is about reincarnation, and I do not get it. I am not aware of anything about reincarnation in the Bible, so where would Josephus or the Pharisees get it from?
The only thing I can think of that may refer to it is Heb 9:27: As it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment:...Possibly referring to it as false doctrine.

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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Metacrock » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:30 am

here is the saga, the endless battle between Pixie andmyself,

http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2017 ... 1589528106

It began as my argent that Mark did not invent the idea of the empty tomb of Christ, I proved that scholarship supports the idea of a pre mark redaction that includes the empty tomb, So Px changed the subject to something he thought he could win.

for some reason about which he could ever be clear Px got the idea that this body replacement thing disproves the empty tomb, I am not sure why. But the argument evolved in to his position: body replacement vs my position that body replacement violates the Hebrew concept of personhood.

my argumet is that God renews the body of the dead, When it rots away he till knows where the particles of dust go that the body rotted into he pulls them back and reveres the process and makes it new again then makes it better transforming it into a glorified resurrection body,

Px can't accept that anyone would actually believe it.They believed in magic that is nothing compared to some stuff they believed.
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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Metacrock » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:36 am

from the lin above

Anonymous (PIXIE) said...
Jesus and the Empty Tomb

What does this mean to what Paul believed about Jesus? Paul believed Jsus was the messiah. He was crucified, and when he breathed his last, his spirit departed to Sheol - just as Psalm 16 describes. After three days, God raised Jesus, giving Jesus a new body that shined "brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven", and this was how Paul encountered Jesus - "a light shone around him from heaven".

Jesus no longer needed his old body, he had a new one. As far as Paul was concerned there was no empty tomb and no need to suppose one.


Meta:
If Jesus got a new body why was the tomb empty? where did they put the old body? why did they need to leave an empty tomb? There are so many problems with your little subterfuge.

Jesus got a new and different body? Cleaver of God to put new nails holes in the new body so they could see where they were, But why didn't the men go "what are these holes doing here? isn't this a new body?"

Jesus had the same body that was crucified, because it still had the wounds; but he clearly said he was in some state of glorification because he didn't want Mary M to touch him because he had not yet been before the father,

get your head around the idea that God can re make something and elevate it to a higher level. If God could make an angle body the could make an old body into an angle body you don't know what Angels look like you do''t know what you are talking about anyway,

1 cor 15;42 say clearly it's the same body that is put in the ground that grows into something new,

you still have scholar who agrees with you
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Re: Did Josephus think the Pharisees believed in reincarnati

Post by Metacrock » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:59 am

here is a key passage we fought over; He says this proves boy replacement but his argument is predicated upon the idea that God can't improve an existing dead body he has to create a new angel body, he's not capable of transforming an existing dead body into an mortal body. I say vs 42 in bold says that is exactly what he will do: improve the old dead body.

1 Corinthians 15:40-44New International Version (NIV)

40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
42 says "it" the bode that dies is raised imperishable,
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
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