Tillich inspired cosmologocal style argument

[Jim B.]

I think this is where QM theory gives this whole traditional line of thought a real kick in the pants.... It isn't just newly-created particles expanding into a void, space and time themselves are simultaneously created in the Big Bang as well. That might seem even better for the ex nihilo side, but, the problem is, space and time themselves don't seem to us very real anymore, once we start seeing them from the perspectives of the smallest bits of reality. So, shouldn't an omnipotent 'Ground of Being' type of Sur-Being been able to create something ex nihilo a little solider than that?

God could have made it turtles all the way down, but what's the fun in that? That the world seems so unnecessarily over-built with qualitatively different kinds of reality superimposed upon each other maybe makes the world more 'interesting' and complex than if it'd been monolithic, if that's what God was after...(?) Almost as if the world has a 'presentational' aspect(?) Or the weirdness could just be brute. How do we decide?

[Metacrock]

I think this is where QM theory gives this whole traditional line of thought a real kick in the pants.... It isn't just newly-created particles expanding into a void, space and time themselves are simultaneously created in the Big Bang as well. That might seem even better for the ex nihilo side, but, the problem is, space and time themselves don't seem to us very real anymore, once we start seeing them from the perspectives of the smallest bits of reality. So, shouldn't an omnipotent 'Ground of Being' type of Sur-Being been able to create something ex nihilo a little solider than that?

God could have made it turtles all the way down, but what's the fun in that? That the world seems so unnecessarily over-built with qualitatively different kinds of reality superimposed upon each other maybe makes the world more 'interesting' and complex than if it'd been monolithic, if that's what God was after...(?) Almost as if the world has a 'presentational' aspect(?) Or the weirdness could just be brute. How do we decide?

that whole problems folods up imto the solution of the thought iu thr mind god idea. Proto pan psychism