this discussion is getting away from me. can you explain more what that means? I think you made a good point but I'm not sure what some of the references you make are.Superfund wrote:Heavan and hell are between your ears.
From the "revelation of hell" link; "Yes Lupe, he knew about Me. He accepted Me as his personal Savior, but he did not serve Me"?? and John lennon was there in hell as well lol. from the "Satanic music group" what utter nonsense. Even contradicts the bible "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Heads up "the son of man" service wasn't to save us from Greek mythology..
These fears are the result of conditioning, you must understand that. Other peoples ideas other peoples thoughts.
Try this http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/fr ... the-known/
Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
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Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
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Re: Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
Hi Joe sorry for being a bit vague. Those links Mr. furious.. I didn't even look at the heaven one but the one about hell is laughable, its so contrived.
If you want to know Christ who he was and what he has done you need to know from the heart. within Conditioned thoughts and their divisions and conflicts there is no humility and there are all kinds of distortions and psychological fear. The Son of man says "Humble yourself as a child" so my understanding from Christ's example is to humble my self as a child and believe in the one who he sends, and so, the boy sends the man. (Or the child sends the human being) this I understand from the heart and I am grounded in human being. but for me then to act in all innocence in matters of love and relationship can be still be very troubling it takes a lot of courage and that's challenging enough with out being burdened by all kinds of psychological fears and distortions. "I have come that they might have life, and have it to the full" and "my yoke is easy my burden is light" but if anyone gets it wrong I'm going to send them to some Greek mythological chop house/lava pit ...forever. that's theological bankruptcy right there. It is fundamentally flawed logic propagated by religious leaders. How did Christ deal with religious "authorities" of his day. he calmly showed out the hypocrisy and distortions for what they were. In the end they were desperate to get rid of him to preserve their own power over the people.
Joe (Meta)has some great pages about "hell" I think he already linked you and if you want to reconsider knowing Christ and what he has done as well & I re-commend that link in my previous post. But if you just want to be a Christian to get rid of the boogey man or whatever well I'm not sure about that one. in that link you may find a basis for honest enquiry.
/peace
If you want to know Christ who he was and what he has done you need to know from the heart. within Conditioned thoughts and their divisions and conflicts there is no humility and there are all kinds of distortions and psychological fear. The Son of man says "Humble yourself as a child" so my understanding from Christ's example is to humble my self as a child and believe in the one who he sends, and so, the boy sends the man. (Or the child sends the human being) this I understand from the heart and I am grounded in human being. but for me then to act in all innocence in matters of love and relationship can be still be very troubling it takes a lot of courage and that's challenging enough with out being burdened by all kinds of psychological fears and distortions. "I have come that they might have life, and have it to the full" and "my yoke is easy my burden is light" but if anyone gets it wrong I'm going to send them to some Greek mythological chop house/lava pit ...forever. that's theological bankruptcy right there. It is fundamentally flawed logic propagated by religious leaders. How did Christ deal with religious "authorities" of his day. he calmly showed out the hypocrisy and distortions for what they were. In the end they were desperate to get rid of him to preserve their own power over the people.
Joe (Meta)has some great pages about "hell" I think he already linked you and if you want to reconsider knowing Christ and what he has done as well & I re-commend that link in my previous post. But if you just want to be a Christian to get rid of the boogey man or whatever well I'm not sure about that one. in that link you may find a basis for honest enquiry.
/peace
Re: Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
It's hard for me to tell if you are talking to me or him. Glad you like my pages on hell. Yes I agree with you.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Re: Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
I was referring to the op I should have realized how old this thread was I'm sure the op is long gone.Metacrock wrote:It's hard for me to tell if you are talking to me or him. Glad you like my pages on hell. Yes I agree with you.
Re: Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
There is a Sufi saying "You want everybody to go to heaven? Be careful you yourself do not go to hell".
All I can say is that Jesus is my savior and my Lord. I do not say this in an abstract theoretical manner, I say it from experience- I know what evil and hell must be like. I know what it is like to say with St. Paul that the evil that I wish I did not do, I do, and the good that I wish I did, I do not do. And the only solution is simply to die to self, to let Christ live in me. That is what it is all about... not where the masses of humanity go when they die. That's like questioning your neurosurgeon about the details of your surgery when you are bleeding out from a brain aneurysm.
The real issue should be, for any nonbeliever... who do you say Jesus is? If you know him as Lord and study the Bible and participate in the Church, in time the rest of the questions are answered.
FWIW, I am still an inclusivist.
All I can say is that Jesus is my savior and my Lord. I do not say this in an abstract theoretical manner, I say it from experience- I know what evil and hell must be like. I know what it is like to say with St. Paul that the evil that I wish I did not do, I do, and the good that I wish I did, I do not do. And the only solution is simply to die to self, to let Christ live in me. That is what it is all about... not where the masses of humanity go when they die. That's like questioning your neurosurgeon about the details of your surgery when you are bleeding out from a brain aneurysm.
The real issue should be, for any nonbeliever... who do you say Jesus is? If you know him as Lord and study the Bible and participate in the Church, in time the rest of the questions are answered.
FWIW, I am still an inclusivist.
Re: Is inclusivism just wishful thinking?
o yea I agree completelySuperfund wrote:I was referring to the op I should have realized how old this thread was I'm sure the op is long gone.Metacrock wrote:It's hard for me to tell if you are talking to me or him. Glad you like my pages on hell. Yes I agree with you.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief