Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Discuss either theological doctrines, ideas about God, or Biblical criticism. I don't want any debates about creation vs evolution.

Moderator:Metacrock

Forum rules
(1) be interesting (2) be nice.
User avatar
mdsimpson92
Posts:2187
Joined:Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:05 pm
Location:Tianjin, China
Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by mdsimpson92 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:51 pm

Ok, so there are generally variations of three different concepts of hell. 1. the usual eternal, dante's inferno, burning hell. 2. annihilationism, hell is simply true death, your soul ceases to exist. 3. universalism. All will be reconciled eventually. Hell becomes something more like purgatory.

If my church history is correct, by the time of Constantine of the 6 major churches, 4 were universalist (mostly in the eastern part of the roman empire), one was annihilationist (Carthage I think), and 1 eternal damnation (Rome).
Julia: It's all... a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:15 pm

mdsimpson92 wrote:Ok, so there are generally variations of three different concepts of hell. 1. the usual eternal, dante's inferno, burning hell. 2. annihilationism, hell is simply true death, your soul ceases to exist. 3. universalism. All will be reconciled eventually. Hell becomes something more like purgatory.

If my church history is correct, by the time of Constantine of the 6 major churches, 4 were universalist (mostly in the eastern part of the roman empire), one was annihilationist (Carthage I think), and 1 eternal damnation (Rome).
Sounds right to me.

#13 – A SNIPPET FROM TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY - G.T. STEVENSON

“Many plain direct statements in the sacred scriptures declare that the purpose of God through our Lord Jesus Christ is to bless all humanity and to bring the whole universe into harmony with Himself.

How can this be if myriads of mankind whom He so loves were to be kept alive forever in hopeless misery? And what kind of a god could love the sinner with Calvary love until he died, and then leave him in indescribable suffering eternally?”

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:50 am

#14 – A SNIPPET FROM THE DIVINE DESTINY – K. ROSS MCKAY

“The great enmity of mankind is but a background to magnify and display the far greater love of our God. Such love is as measureless as it is timeless; a vast portion being yet unrevealed. ‘And having made peace through the blood of Christ’s cross, by Him to reconcile all unto Himself, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.’ This plan of the ages is our Lord’s ultimate purpose according to the declared will of Almighty God. This is the divine destiny of all in His creation. This is love that never fails.”

User avatar
Metacrock
Posts:10046
Joined:Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am
Location:Dallas
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by Metacrock » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:11 am

I wish stop hawking your wears and talk. You are not responding to what we say you are just selling doing commercials.
Have Theology, Will argue: wire Metacrock
Buy My book: The Trace of God: Warrant for belief

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:35 am

Metacrock wrote:I wish stop hawking your wears and talk. You are not responding to what we say you are just selling doing commercials.
What statement did you make that I did not respond to Metacrock?

I am posting my snippets mainly for the enjoyment of the Christian universalists who might be surfing through your website.

#15 – A SNIPPET FROM IS HELL ETERNAL? – MIKKEL DAHL AND JON R. WELKER

“Most Christian ministers seek only to search out passages of scripture that corroborate the eternal hell school of theology to which they belong; and whatever passages are unfortunately found in conflict are put through the required interpretations and contortions to disqualify for entry. Christian ministers all have posts to fill; they have a job to hold down; wherefore they dare not reach out for truth lest they should see too much and their conscience disturb them and their livelihood be imperilled.”

User avatar
mdsimpson92
Posts:2187
Joined:Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:05 pm
Location:Tianjin, China

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by mdsimpson92 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:48 pm

And I, being semi-universalist, appreciate it. But after a while it can be a little tiring.

Anyways, If we are to accept that all will be saved, what does that do with free will?
Julia: It's all... a dream...
Spike Spiegel: Yeah... just a dream...

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:13 pm

mdsimpson92 wrote:And I, being semi-universalist, appreciate it. But after a while it can be a little tiring.

Anyways, If we are to accept that all will be saved, what does that do with free will?
I'd like to respnd to that using the words of GERRY BEAUCHEMIN who wrote

”Tradition has taught that God will not save a person against their will. I agree. However He has the power to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary to effect one’s will to change.

Once a full revelation of God is received in the ages to come (Eph. 2:7), men will bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord just as Isaiah and Paul prophesied (Is. 45:21-25; Rom. 4:11; Ph. 2:9-11). Who would want to continue in active and persistent rebellion knowing God only wants what is best for them? Knowing the great goodness and love of God, along with the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, these hardened hearts must melt before His glorious being.

It is impossible that an omnipotent God can fail in His purpose so that some would forever resist unconditional love opting for everlasting pain. This would be totally irrational. And even if one were that irrational, such resistance would not arise out of a ‘free’ will, but an ‘enslaved’ will, a will in bondage to an enslaved mind.”

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:16 pm

#16 – A SNIPPET FROM THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN – by Samuel Richardson, edited by Thomas Whittemore, and published by him in 1833.
On page 85, Whittemore says that Richardson wrote this book nearly 200 years before 1833.

First of all, there is what Richardson wrote nearly 200 years before 1833:
“The doctrine of endless hell torments hath caused many to murder themselves, taking away their own lives by poison, stabbing, drowning, hanging, strangling, and shooting themselves, casting themselves out of windows, and from high places, to break their necks and by other kinds of death, that they might not live to increase their sin, and increase their torments in hell.”

Now here is what Whittemore the editor, wrote at the bottom of the page nearly 200 years later in 1833:
“Here we see the same dreadful effects attended the doctrine of endless misery nearly 200 years ago which attend it now. It was then the cause of anxiety, despair, and suicide, as we suppose it always was before, where fully believed, and as we know it has been of late years. Let posterity know, that within the last ten years, there have been a large number of suicides, which must be attributed to the doctrine of endless torment. That doctrine makes men melancholy; it drives them to despair; they know not what to do; and they sever the brittle thread, Fathers and Mothers, in repeated instances in the United States, have murdered their children, lest they should grow up, and commit sin, and be damned. Can a doctrine which produces such dreadful consequences be the doctrine of God?” End of Quote.

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:57 am

#17 – A SNIPPET FROM THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON

“The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the non-Christian Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment.

Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of His disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which His contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? Jesus never adopted the language of His day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.”
See this link.
http://hellbusters.8m.com/upd3.html

rodgertutt
Posts:48
Joined:Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:35 pm
Location:Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Snippets from my hard copy Universal Reconciliation library

Post by rodgertutt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:12 am

#18 - A LETTER OF THE CELEBRATED JOHN FOSTER TO A YOUNG MINISTER ON THE DURATION OF FUTURE PUNISHMENT AND AN EARNEST APPEAL TO THE AMERICAN TRACT SOCIETY IN REGARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF ITS PUBLICATIONS – JOHN FOSTER

“The original terms translated everlasting, eternal, forever, are often employed in the Bible, as well as other writings under various limitations of import and are thus withdrawn from the predicament of meaning endless duration.

Since the terms do not necessarily signify an interminable duration, and since there is in the present instance to be pleaded for admitting a limited interpretation, a reason in the moral estimate of things of stupendous infinite urgency involving our perceptions of the divine goodness, and leaving those conceptions overwhelmed in darkness and horror if it be rejected, I therefore conclude that a limited interpretation is authorized.”

Post Reply