Matthew 8:28-34

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fleetmouse
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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by fleetmouse » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:26 am

When you say supernatural are you actually trying to say that evil can become so prodigious that it seems preternatural? Or are you talking about telekinetic effects, levitation, stuff that would indicate hauntings or poltergeist and "demonic" activity?

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by Metacrock » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:44 am

fleetmouse wrote:When you say supernatural are you actually trying to say that evil can become so prodigious that it seems preternatural? Or are you talking about telekinetic effects, levitation, stuff that would indicate hauntings or poltergeist and "demonic" activity?
the former.

I am in quandary because when I go on CARM and see the way those pieces of shit treat and other Christians for no reason I think there must be demons. there's no excuse for the way they do. Of course in my serious moments when I'm not being mocked and ridiculed I can see that just fits my theory about the gestalt. They are drawing upon each other.

I think there's emotional energy we give each other. that's not telekinetic it's not going physically from one to another through the air, but it's an emotional charge that magnifies within each person by triggering depths of the soul.

of course there may be some wired quantum connection we don't know about.
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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by URBILD » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:47 pm

OK... I'm interested in how you arrive at the conclusion that it's allegorical. Do you think it's outlandish on the face of it and therefore look for a non literal meaning, or is there some scholarly evidence to support the allegorical view which makes you take it as non literal?
There are plenty of scholarly articles supporting the idea that the story cryptically expresses anti-Roman hostility. You might want to consult Walter Wink's discussion of the demoniac in his book,[ i]Unmasking the Powers[/i].
For myself, the former is the case - it's outlandish to me, as silly as anything in Scientology or Mormonism if taken literally. But the problem for me is, many of the other miracles attributed to Jesus seem just as outlandish and unlikely, albeit not as absurdly comical.
Yes, the 'absurdly comical' nature of the episode tells us that there is something more going on beyond the literal reading of the story. Wink goes into that.

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by Metacrock » Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 am

URBILD wrote:
OK... I'm interested in how you arrive at the conclusion that it's allegorical. Do you think it's outlandish on the face of it and therefore look for a non literal meaning, or is there some scholarly evidence to support the allegorical view which makes you take it as non literal?
There are plenty of scholarly articles supporting the idea that the story cryptically expresses anti-Roman hostility. You might want to consult Walter Wink's discussion of the demoniac in his book,[ i]Unmasking the Powers[/i].
For myself, the former is the case - it's outlandish to me, as silly as anything in Scientology or Mormonism if taken literally. But the problem for me is, many of the other miracles attributed to Jesus seem just as outlandish and unlikely, albeit not as absurdly comical.
Yes, the 'absurdly comical' nature of the episode tells us that there is something more going on beyond the literal reading of the story. Wink goes into that.

good point Urbie
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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by fleetmouse » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:05 am

Metacrock wrote:
fleetmouse wrote:When you say supernatural are you actually trying to say that evil can become so prodigious that it seems preternatural? Or are you talking about telekinetic effects, levitation, stuff that would indicate hauntings or poltergeist and "demonic" activity?
the former.

I am in quandary because when I go on CARM and see the way those pieces of shit treat and other Christians for no reason I think there must be demons. there's no excuse for the way they do. Of course in my serious moments when I'm not being mocked and ridiculed I can see that just fits my theory about the gestalt. They are drawing upon each other.

I think there's emotional energy we give each other. that's not telekinetic it's not going physically from one to another through the air, but it's an emotional charge that magnifies within each person by triggering depths of the soul.

of course there may be some wired quantum connection we don't know about.
One of the dangers of having a cause or being part of a movement is that we lose sight of the humanity of the people in front of us and see them as a synecdoche for some greater force - you're an atheist, or a Christian, or a Republican, or a liberal, and I'll see you in those terms and project everything I believe about those ideologies on to you. In that sense we're possessed by demons, to the extent that we're merely puppets of these Big Ideas duking it out with each other.

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by fleetmouse » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:08 am

URBILD wrote:
OK... I'm interested in how you arrive at the conclusion that it's allegorical. Do you think it's outlandish on the face of it and therefore look for a non literal meaning, or is there some scholarly evidence to support the allegorical view which makes you take it as non literal?
There are plenty of scholarly articles supporting the idea that the story cryptically expresses anti-Roman hostility. You might want to consult Walter Wink's discussion of the demoniac in his book,[ i]Unmasking the Powers[/i].
For myself, the former is the case - it's outlandish to me, as silly as anything in Scientology or Mormonism if taken literally. But the problem for me is, many of the other miracles attributed to Jesus seem just as outlandish and unlikely, albeit not as absurdly comical.
Yes, the 'absurdly comical' nature of the episode tells us that there is something more going on beyond the literal reading of the story. Wink goes into that.
That sounds interesting and I'll look it up if my gnat size internet era attention span permits. :mrgreen:

Would the Christians around the time of the council of Nicaea have seen it in those non literal terms?

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by Metacrock » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:07 am

fleetmouse wrote:
Metacrock wrote:
fleetmouse wrote:When you say supernatural are you actually trying to say that evil can become so prodigious that it seems preternatural? Or are you talking about telekinetic effects, levitation, stuff that would indicate hauntings or poltergeist and "demonic" activity?
the former.

I am in quandary because when I go on CARM and see the way those pieces of shit treat and other Christians for no reason I think there must be demons. there's no excuse for the way they do. Of course in my serious moments when I'm not being mocked and ridiculed I can see that just fits my theory about the gestalt. They are drawing upon each other.

I think there's emotional energy we give each other. that's not telekinetic it's not going physically from one to another through the air, but it's an emotional charge that magnifies within each person by triggering depths of the soul.

of course there may be some wired quantum connection we don't know about.
One of the dangers of having a cause or being part of a movement is that we lose sight of the humanity of the people in front of us and see them as a synecdoche for some greater force - you're an atheist, or a Christian, or a Republican, or a liberal, and I'll see you in those terms and project everything I believe about those ideologies on to you. In that sense we're possessed by demons, to the extent that we're merely puppets of these Big Ideas duking it out with each other.

that's what they do to me on carm. they also have accepted the identity "this is the guy who insults everyone." they will come out of the shoute insulting me and then say "you insult everyone." even when others were aying "I see you are better, you are not doing it as much" others were saying 'you are always insult people"
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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by URBILD » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:57 pm

That sounds interesting and I'll look it up if my gnat size internet era attention span permits. :mrgreen:

Would the Christians around the time of the council of Nicaea have seen it in those non literal terms?
I don't think so. The Christians of that era didn't have a problem with allegorizing the Scributres. But as you probably know, Christianity had become depoliticized as it was transformed into the established religion of the Empire.

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by fleetmouse » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:57 am

URBILD wrote:
That sounds interesting and I'll look it up if my gnat size internet era attention span permits. :mrgreen:

Would the Christians around the time of the council of Nicaea have seen it in those non literal terms?
I don't think so. The Christians of that era didn't have a problem with allegorizing the Scributres. But as you probably know, Christianity had become depoliticized as it was transformed into the established religion of the Empire.

That sounds reasonable.

I found an article by Wink and it was terrific, very insightful. Maybe I do have the attention span for him after all.

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Re: Matthew 8:28-34

Post by Metacrock » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:22 am

fleetmouse wrote:
URBILD wrote:
That sounds interesting and I'll look it up if my gnat size internet era attention span permits. :mrgreen:

Would the Christians around the time of the council of Nicaea have seen it in those non literal terms?
I don't think so. The Christians of that era didn't have a problem with allegorizing the Scributres. But as you probably know, Christianity had become depoliticized as it was transformed into the established religion of the Empire.

That sounds reasonable.

I found an article by Wink and it was terrific, very insightful. Maybe I do have the attention span for him after all.

Walter Wink? I think his name is Walter.He's really good. He used to be quoted by liberation theology guys a lot.
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