Theologial37 vs zkueker88: over predestination and others

[mdsimpson92]

Sorry, the audio is not the best here. I don't believe that all calvinists are like this but people with these mannerisms really disturb me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tpyRGOq ... annel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv46VdMV ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXc9imVY ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acqb9ad ... ure=relmfu

[Metacrock]

I don't know if you gathered this or what but I am big time Wesleyan and not at all Calvinistic.

[mdsimpson92]

I don't know if you gathered this or what but I am big time Wesleyan and not at all Calvinistic.

I know, from what I have read from your blogs you actually have an aversion to Calvinism. I also know that you dislike Carm and I know that place is run by a Matt Slick, a person who is a Calvinist and would probably be saying that the two of us are going to hell. Especially me given my universalistic tendencies.

[Metacrock]

I don't know if you gathered this or what but I am big time Wesleyan and not at all Calvinistic.

I know, from what I have read from your blogs you actually have an aversion to Calvinism. I also know that you dislike Carm and I know that place is run by a Matt Slick, a person who is a Calvinist and would probably be saying that the two of us are going to hell. Especially me given my universalistic tendencies.

He's probably a TULIP Guy and more Calvinist than Calvin. O well, what can you do. I still makes no sense to me why a Calvinist would bother to evangelize.

I'm just determined to believe in Free Will. I can't help it.

[mdsimpson92]

He's probably a TULIP Guy and more Calvinist than Calvin. O well, what can you do. I still makes no sense to me why a Calvinist would bother to evangelize.I'm just determined to believe in Free Will. I can't help it.

Predestination never made much sense to me in light of free will, especially since I'm more of an indeterminist (William James style though I need to study more on it), so for me their whole proposition falls flat on its face before it can even get started. That and the implied elitism that comes with it, an emphasis on being the "elect", never really gells with me. I know it is mentioned a few times in the bible but they always emphasize that it is open to all that are willing to repent.

On a second note, what is TULIP?

[mdsimpson92]

Sorry, again, what is TULIP?

[met]

Sorry, again, what is TULIP?

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

from here:
http://calvinistcorner.com/tulip

[mdsimpson92]

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Wow, that is like giving a giant middle finger to the idea of universal salvation and to a lesser extent St. Paul. Granted, I lean toward the east orthodox so the idea of total depravity just doesn't make sense given God's close relationship with us.

[met]

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Wow, that is like giving a giant middle finger to the idea of universal salvation and to a lesser extent St. Paul. Granted, I lean toward the east orthodox so the idea of total depravity just doesn't make sense given God's close relationship with us.

That's where the EO differ, yep. Don't really accept Augustine's spin on 'original sin.'

... and many uni's are Calvi's too - except for the limited atonement part. For them, grace is irresistable, and given to everyone. And free will ain't got nuttin' to do with it! )

[Metacrock]

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

Wow, that is like giving a giant middle finger to the idea of universal salvation and to a lesser extent St. Paul. Granted, I lean toward the east orthodox so the idea of total depravity just doesn't make sense given God's close relationship with us.

That's where the EO differ, yep. Don't really accept Augustine's spin on 'original sin.'

... and many uni's are Calvi's too - except for the limited atonement part. For them, grace is irresistable, and given to everyone. And free will ain't got nuttin' to do with it! )

Is that your view?